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 Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!

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twinkyninja



Posts : 181
Poker Points : 250
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2010-03-28
Age : 99
Location : Calgary

PostSubject: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:57 pm

Hi Guys,

Firstly, let me say I am sorry for your recent American woes, I personally support online poker.

Secondly, I believe your system is flawed and my consumer/player rights have been violated.

I am aware I am chat banned for use of profanity against another player, albeit this has nothing to do with the causation of my complaint.

This morning I played a few various satellite games. I wanted some tickets for various events before I was due to go out to an Easter lunch. As can be seen below I won a ticket into event 417010002 for $320.00

As per your automated email I also have the option to unregister. This is also the option given to players on other sites.

After winning the ticket I was placed into the tournament which had been playing for some 20 minutes. I verily believe I have been the victim of unfair play and bias.

1. The obvious is the game had been going for sometime before I was seated; other seated players had 20 minutes of play against me.
2. This also affects the reads and general dynamics of play.
3. Other sites including Fulltilt poker automatically send an email and credit tournament dollars or a ticket when a game has already commenced to avoid unfair advantages.

Immediately upon entering, I attempted to contact the “Moderator” and seek removal from the game. Since I am chat banned I am unable to contact/and or chat with a moderator to obtain basic assistance and customer care from your site during game play?

Respectfully, I have been burdened with a lack of support and unfair advantage. It is not relevant I am chat banned for the use of profanity, contacting a moderator is a basic function of support and service.

I ask that you refund the buy in of $320.00 in tournament dollars or issue me with a satellite ticket into another event, whereas I can actually play from the start of the tournament without bias and undue advantage.

I can tell you, when a satellite tournament is played/won on Fulltilt poker, they do not place you into an event that has already started. They credit the amount in a ticket or tournament dollars and advice by email that this has occurred as the tournament has already begun.

I am very disappointed by the actions of your site, and the consequential act of me missing my Easter lunch with friends.

Regards
Steve

Player name: Twinkyninja


Annexure: Email pokerstars notification to ban.dido@live.ca



PokerStars Tournament #386579485, No Limit Hold'em
Super Satellite
Buy-In: $20.00/$2.00 USD
23 players
Total Prize Pool: $1340.00 USD
Target Tournament #417010002 Buy-In: $320.00 USD
4 tickets to the target tournament

Tournament started 2011/04/23 12:03:00 ET


Dear TwinkyNinja,

You finished the tournament in 1st place. You qualified to play in Tournament #417010002 and are automatically registered for it. See Tournament #417010002 Lobby for further details.

If you choose to unregister from this tournament your account will be credited with T-USD 320.00. Tournament US Dollars can be used to buy into any tournament. Visit our web site at http://www.pokerstars.eu/poker/tournaments/ for more details.

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PostSubject: Re: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:15 pm

Thats pretty lame, why would they even be running a satellite to a tournament that already started?
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twinkyninja



Posts : 181
Poker Points : 250
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2010-03-28
Age : 99
Location : Calgary

PostSubject: Re: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:27 am

what annoys me more is they probably wont personally reply, they probably wont do anything and they will send me some horseshit macro reply feeding me some crap and they wonder why they get a bad reputation and.

lets not forget bro i have probably given them 50 grand of business also. which is a lot more than the average player would.

i just cant get it through my head that they would throw me into a tournament that had been going 20 minutes. its just wrong.

i hope they give me a ticket into next weeks game or even an equivilent into one of there other games, that would be the right and fair thing to do for any player, but also a player they have obtained substainal rakes from.

STEVE
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PostSubject: Re: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:57 am

Yeah, PokerStars is becoming well known for there worthless cookie cutter support responses. If you were signed up at Stars through us I'd try and help out but theres nothing I can do since your not.

Anyway, I really hope you get some type of refund for this and please be sure to let us know whether or not you do.
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twinkyninja



Posts : 181
Poker Points : 250
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Join date : 2010-03-28
Age : 99
Location : Calgary

PostSubject: Re: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Mon May 02, 2011 8:07 pm

I still dont think the issue is addressed, as it doesnt take into consideration dynamics and player advantage etc by playing longer and being seated late, I really dont see the relevence in how long I actually played for. If that makes any sense, at least there reply was personal and not some macro BS.

Oh, and who gives a shit about the Isle of man, I live in Canada and they should provide a service which conforms to the laws of this country.

ok so this is the complete reply...................

Ok thankyou, i wont make that mistake again

> Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 18:14:32 -0400
> From: support@pokerstars.com
> To: ***********@live.ca
> Subject: PokerStars Support - Registration Message
>
> Hello Steven,
>
> Thank you for your patience as we took the time to review your correspondence.
>
> At the outset, PokerStars holds its license with the Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission.
>
> The Gambling Supervision Commission is an independent corporate body initially established in 1962 and consists of a Chairman and four members.
>
> In addition to the licensing and regulation of terrestrial gambling operations as the Casino, amusement or slot machines, betting and lotteries the Commission is also charged with the regulation of all online gambling activities.
>
> The Isle of Man is a British Crown dependency located between England and Ireland in the Irish Sea. The Island has the world’s oldest continuous parliament called Tynwald which legislates for the Island.
>
> More on our regulatory body can be found here on our website:
>
> http://www.pokerstars.com/iom/
>
> Moving on. Clear warnings and instructions are provided to players regarding their play and subsequent qualifying rules in the Pre-Registration message:
>
> "Registration Message:
>
> Welcome to the tournament.
>
> If you win a seat while the target's registration is still open, you will be registered automatically.
> If you win a seat to a target tournament which has begun, you will be seated automatically and
> unregistration will not be possible.
>
> If you win a seat in a satellite which ends after the target tournament's registration has closed (or
> if you are already registered for the target), you will be credited automatically."
>
> As stated above, *If you win a seat to a target tournament which has begun, you will be seated automatically and unregistration will not be possible*.
>
> This is exactly what has occurred in your situation. Tournament #386579485 finished at 1:07:42 PM ET and you were seated into Tournament #41701002 with your first dealt hand at 1:09:11 PM ET. You then played 131 hands of Tournament #417010002 for approximately 2.5 hours ending at 3:36:12 PM ET, giving yourself every opportunity to compete for the prize. I have attached your complete hand histories for this event to this email.
>
> In regards to the rule you have cited, please note that it does not relate to this matter as it refers to unregistration prior to the start of the event.
>
> Further you mention a similar satellite:
>
> >Coincidentally, I was playing a second satilite for the same event at the same time, there were 20 tickets available. I finished 21st in this tournament. NONE of these players were automatically entered.
> >
> >AT NO TIME, were the instructions you give in the TOURNAMENT LOBBY. Is this how you treat all your 50k customers?
>
> I can confirm that you participated in Tournament #388184558, '$100K Gtd Sat: $5.50+R 3x-Turbo [2 Seats Gtd]'. This event had the same Registration Message:
>
> "Registration Message:
>
> Welcome to the tournament.
>
> If you win a seat while the target's registration is still open, you will be registered automatically.
> If you win a seat to a target tournament which has begun, you will be seated automatically and
> unregistration will not be possible.
>
> If you win a seat in a satellite which ends after the target tournament's registration has closed (or
> if you are already registered for the target), you will be credited automatically."
>
> This event finished at 2:15:47 PM ET within the 90 minute extended registration period of Tournament #417010002. I can confirm that ALL players in this satellite were in fact registered and participated in the event similar to your situation.
>
> In closing, while I certainly understand the sentiments of your correspondences, due to the warnings given and the complete and consistent enforcement of this policy in our satellites, we are unfortunately unable to accommodate your request.
>
> Thank you for your understanding.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Z
> PokerStars Support Team
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: **********@live.ca
> Sent: 2011/05/01 00:30:04
> To: support@pokerstars.eu
> Subject: RE: PokerStars Support - Registration Message
>
> >
> >Simply, I did not see this message, I have reviewed what I can and cannot state the message even exists.
> >
> >Under your rules and code of conduct item 18 clearly states.....
> >
> >Unregistration. In most tournaments a player can unregister up to 10
> >minutes before the start of a tournament. Players who have won their
> >seats through a satellite can unregister; however, they will receive
> >tournament dollars in exchange for their seat. Tournament dollars are
> >credits available for use to buy in to any other PokerStars tournament.
> >
> >Firstly, the delay was longer than 10 minutes, secondly what you describe is most certainly NOT in the tournament lobby.
> >
> >I have reviewed the Alberta gaming commission laws and policies, you have acted outside the scope of there policies within Canada.
> >
> >Simply, I am asking you to fix it.
> >
> >Coincidentally, I was playing a second satilite for the same event at the same time, there were 20 tickets available. I finished 21st in this tournament. NONE of these players were automatically entered.
> >
> >AT NO TIME, were the instructions you give in the TOURNAMENT LOBBY. Is this how you treat all your 50k customers?
> >
> >because quite frankly I find is rude.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 17:17:55 -0400
> >> From: support@pokerstars.eu
> >> To: ********@live.ca
> >> Subject: PokerStars Support - Registration Message
> >>
> >> Hello Steven,
> >>
> >> Thank you for allowing us to be of assistance.
> >>
> >> We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you.
> >>
> >> The Tournament #386579485 that you entered clearly provides the following 'Registration Message' to make sure there are no confusions for our players :
> >>
> >> "Welcome to the tournament.
> >>
> >> If you win a seat while the target's registration is still open, you will be registered automatically. If you win a seat to a target tournament which has begun, you will be seated automatically and unregistration will not be possible.
> >>
> >> If you win a seat in a satellite which ends after the target tournament's registration has closed (or if you are already registered for the target), you will be credited automatically."
> >>
> >> If you are to require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> >>
> >> Thank you for choosing PokerStars.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Daniel C.
> >> PokerStars Support Team
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: ************@live.ca
> >> Sent: 2011/04/23 16:45:15
> >> To: support@pokerstars.eu
> >> Subject: Unfair player advantage
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hi Guys,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Firstly, let me say I am sorry for your recent
> >> >American woes, I personally support online poker.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Secondly, I believe your system is flawed and my
> >> >consumer/player rights have been violated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I am aware I am chat banned for use of profanity against
> >> >another player, albeit this has nothing to do with the causation of my
> >> >complaint.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >This morning I played a few various satellite
> >> >games. I wanted some tickets for various events before I was due to go out to
> >> >an Easter lunch. As can be seen below I won a ticket into event 417010002 for
> >> >$320.00.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >As per your automated email I also have the option
> >> >to unregister. This is also the option given to players on other sites.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >After winning the ticket I was placed into the
> >> >tournament which had been playing for some 20 minutes. I verily believe I have
> >> >been the victim of unfair play and bias.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >1. The obvious is the game had been going for sometime
> >> >before I was seated; other seated players had 20 minutes of play against me.
> >> >
> >> >2. This also affects the reads and general dynamics of
> >> >play.
> >> >
> >> >3. Other sites including Fulltilt poker automatically
> >> >send an email and credit tournament dollars or a ticket when a game has already
> >> >commenced to avoid unfair advantages.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Immediately upon entering, I attempted to contact
> >> >the “Moderator” and seek removal from the game. Since I am chat banned I am
> >> >unable to contact/and or chat with a moderator to obtain basic assistance and
> >> >customer care from your site during game play?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Respectfully, I have been burdened with a lack of
> >> >support and unfair advantage. It is not relevant I am chat banned for the use
> >> >of profanity, contacting a moderator is a basic function of support and
> >> >service.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I ask that you refund the buy in of $320.00 in
> >> >tournament dollars or issue me with a satellite ticket into another event,
> >> >whereas I can actually play from the start of the tournament without bias and
> >> >undue advantage.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I can tell you, when a satellite tournament is
> >> >played/won on Fulltilt poker, they do not place you into an event that has
> >> >already started. They credit the amount in a ticket or tournament dollars and advice
> >> >by email that this has occurred as the tournament has already begun.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I am very disappointed by the actions of your site,
> >> >and the consequential act of me missing my Easter lunch with friends.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Regards
> >> >
> >> >Steve
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Player name: Twinkyninja
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Annexure: Email pokerstars notification to
> >> >************@live.ca
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >PokerStars Tournament #386579485, No Limit Hold'em
> >> >
> >> >Super Satellite
> >> >
> >> >Buy-In: $20.00/$2.00 USD
> >> >
> >> >23 players
> >> >
> >> >Total Prize Pool: $1340.00 USD
> >> >
> >> >Target Tournament #417010002 Buy-In: $320.00 USD
> >> >
> >> >4 tickets to the target tournament
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Tournament started 2011/04/23 12:03:00 ET
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Dear TwinkyNinja,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >You finished the tournament in 1st place. You qualified to play in Tournament
> >> >#417010002 and are automatically registered for it. See Tournament #417010002
> >> >Lobby for further details.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >If you choose to unregister from this tournament your account will be credited
> >> >with T-USD 320.00. Tournament US Dollars can be used to buy into any
> >> >tournament. Visit our web site at http://www.pokerstars.eu/poker/tournaments/ for more details.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
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PostSubject: Re: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Mon May 02, 2011 8:48 pm

Thanks for letting us know man, but thats some BS you didn't get any type of refund.

I agree that they should abide by the laws where the player is located rather than where they hold there license but thats not going to happen until they are required to hold a license for each country they offer games to.
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PostSubject: Re: Bias or unfair advantage? I think its unfair!   Tue May 17, 2011 3:18 pm

i second that it is bs you didnt get a refund
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