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 How do you protect yourself against the river?

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dsg1970



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PostSubject: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:11 am

In three tournaments I played I had the best hand up to the river:

1. I was big blind $400. I had Ace-Nine off suite. Someone raised me a $600. so I called. Flop was Ace-Nine-Three. I only have $700 left so I go all in. He calls and he has Ace-King. Turn card is nothing and river card is the King. I am out.

2. I have King Queen off suite. I call big blind $500.00. Flop comes Queen-Seven-Two. He raises me $2,000. For the life of me all I could put him on is trips, and I don't think he has that so I raise him all in. He calls. Flops an Ace-Ten off suite. Well turn card makes no difference, but you know what the river card is and I am out.

I seem to know what they have up to the river and have them beat, but they get lucky and their card they need to beat me with materializes. And I am out.

How do you protect yourself against the RIVER?
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OnlinePokerAds Admin
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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:48 pm

All you can do is get your money in while your ahead "which you seem to be doing".

I know when your opponent hits a 3 or 4 outter on the river it really sucks but its going to happen and theres no way around it.

You just have to look at it this way, in the long run those players are going to miss alot more than they hit and will eventually go broke. If you keep getting your money in while your ahead you will win in the long run "and thats what matters".
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BBigzo

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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:41 pm

i agree with Admin im still learning the game myself but with the A rug i cant put more the 30% of my chips in if im low on chips so u did so i guess you played that one right. and the second hand i think u play that right but u have to know who u playing with there are alot of donkey out there sorry gl on the tables
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vernz26

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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:38 pm

my advice would be if the boards are scary and full of scary flush and straight draws try and take the pot down quickly
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ELYRAD444



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:19 pm

1. When all your chips go "all in" you are always taking a chance of losing on the river unless they are drawing dead on the flop.

2. The best way to play a hand that is close on the flop (meaning say you have paired an ace with a small kicker like a 9 and the other player has an ace with a queen kicker) is to try and keep the pot as reasonable as possible, if you are ahead on the flop and are hit with a big raise that smells like a bluff, you can defend by a reraise to let him know you mean business (going all in is not a raise). If he flat calls, you need to read the turn and see if he may have hit his hand. If he checks, you can feel confident he has not hit, but because of traps ( he may have hit three of a kind or better on the flop or turn ) you should decide if a bet will shake him or if he feels like he is pot committed ( look at his chip stack and see what he has bet and has left ). Ask yourself is his chip stack small enough that now he feels the only way he can win the hand is to gamble and see 1 more card ( the dreaded river card )? Or he may just have you hook line and sinker on a monster hand and is watching you self-destruct. After a good read on the turn and with a real bet most people will fold if they have not hit the hand they were looking for.

3. The river card is part of the game and no matter how many chips you throw out on the table into the pot to try and force a fold people are people and we all play poker different.


4. From a defenders point of view. Move "all in" on a defender with position and a healthy chip stack over yours , You may be called in a heart beat. The defenders best play is a trap and nobody can set traps better.

5. Making moves "all in" just feels like a bluff and is very suspicious.

6. The only time you can lose all of your chips is when you are "all in" and if you are "all in" you can't protect yourself from the river card.


Last edited by ELYRAD444 on Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BBigzo

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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:45 pm

i just found out u cant against an donk who don't love and respect the game and thinks he is in an bingo hall. SORRY BUT WITH AN BINGO PLAYER U HAVE NO CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO IF YOUR PLAYING VS AN BINGO PLAYER JUST CHECK IT DOWN HOPEFULLY YOUR HAND STANDS or try TAKE DOWN THE PRE-FLOP BETS.


Last edited by BBigzo on Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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kalswifty



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:44 pm

Sometimes you just cant stop people from calling with bad cards...unfortunately odds determine if they hit their card on the river or not. Just take it in your stride otherwise youll get angry Razz
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Booky



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:27 pm

Sometimes I sit out when people are doing stupid card play, but then I suffer cuz I love the game. It is a lose - lose situation :-( This is one of the main reasons I really like live rooms more than online, seems to be less morons in a live room.
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tavolitoguat



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Fri May 28, 2010 4:02 pm

mmmmm... i will go all in jejeje
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twinkyninja



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sun May 30, 2010 11:55 am

DSG, I would have to be the biggest moaning bitch god ever shovelled shit into when it comes to that river card.

But then again with the amount of cards i play live and online, I get my share of River beats.

In my world poker is like humanity. "you do 1000 things right and no one will give a crap, do 1 thing wrong any everyone remembers and wont forget" As poker players we never forget the frustrating donkeys calling us, the suckouts and the rivers.

We then all have the belief or assumption it happens a lot online, I suggest its only because we play 3 or 4:1 more hand sper hour so we see more beats, but we also have/get more good winninghands and playable cards.

As admin said... Push it.

Strategically in a game, you must know where and when to push. You must also look at stack management. Don't wait until you only have a few big blinds left, if i have a large enough stack and position over others. I WILL CALL YOU WITH ALMOST ANY 2 CARDS.

Lets not forget its a tournament and my job as a player is to get all the chips...not just some of them.

You must look at your own strategy, and make the choice how you will play any tournament and game. Various methods work.

IE: After a few raining days here in Calgary I desided to play online for a few days. I personally love freerolls.

I first played the 50k freeride on poker host. 100 odd players only 1 prize into a 2.20 satelite. My strategy was simple, its a donkathon until you get down to 25 players, bet pre flop huge or push with any "blackjack" hand, any pair and high suited connectors. (yes any pair 22 33 44 you also run the risk of counterfeit).

I then played the 2.20 sat with R & B, I played tight for the first hour (donkeys like to push and will rebuy). Any Pair any AK AQ I pushed and doubled up very quickly and soon amased a leading stack. There was only 50 players, but again I won and have satilitted into todays weekly 50k event.

I played the 100k Step 1 on this site also, using the same statgey I actually quailifed for the step 2 held yesterday 3 times. I again used this same strategy to finish in the top 500 of 7000 players in yesterdays step 2 to play in todays 100k main event.

I find the biggest difference between a live and onlne tourney is I cant see you, stare you down, bluff you with body language and hold a "personal" table presence against you. This is why people often play some inferiour hand online also, they simply have no idea about probabilities and statistics. Cards is not only about patients, position, chip stack management and some luck. Its a mathematical game. Thats why it has the likes of Jesus Ferguson, Howard Lederer etc.

You use patience and position and push pre flop with your AK ect when you are down to 15-20 BB's people wont generally call you, but you will very quickly steal the blindds, antes and dead money. You will see a natural increase quickly.

You push when you have a 5-10 BB stack I will put call all in and race from a larger stack. I may even push myself and whilst giving you protection, I wont et anyone else see the cards and potentially river either player.

As for the bingo players, its the "2 live card" rule and you just have to race, you will know who they are quickly. I personally play any ace against them. Dont be sucked into playing bingo with a K or Q, an ace high card always wins.

ELYRADS comment are also correct (particularly point 5). If its 2 reasonable size stacks "manage the pot". Generally when people go all in online around the turn its because they dont have shit, its the same as a weak ass bet. A monster hand, a trapping hand, or a hand like open end, flush draw (17 outs) the bets stink of a "pay off" if you cant read the cards or put him on a hand, perhaps one shouldnt be in the game in the first place, but reading the bet can help.

I was so annoyed about donkeys in freerolls and smaller SNG's, I actually covered my screen with a peice of paper one day so I couldnt see my hole cards. I played the players and there betting, I was actually shocked at how easy it was to win.

Forget the bubble and the donks and the bingo players. Manage your game, you will have more wins than loses. That is a mathematical fact.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sun May 30, 2010 1:54 pm

nice steve i was plaing 100k step 2 but i lost my nerv coz of the donks that were in it Razz well what can you do....gl buddy and go for it you can win i know Very Happy gl 20k are yours Smile
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twinkyninja



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sun May 30, 2010 2:20 pm

Tell you what I will do and I am a man of my word........

I will donate 5% of any "final table" winnings in this tournament to a private freeroll for our forum ONLY.

So you better hope I final table.

But if I do, I will only allow this "forum tournament" to those that are registered as of todays date, I would rather share my fortunes with the loyal, not those that would register just to get some extra bucks!!!

So admin, if I do, you better arrange something with Poker Host.

Chat soon guys.

I seem to have freerolled into every big tourney on 3 sites today. sick shit.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Mon May 31, 2010 12:07 pm

twinkyninja wrote:
Tell you what I will do and I am a man of my word........

I will donate 5% of any "final table" winnings in this tournament to a private freeroll for our forum ONLY.

So you better hope I final table.

But if I do, I will only allow this "forum tournament" to those that are registered as of todays date, I would rather share my fortunes with the loyal, not those that would register just to get some extra bucks!!!

So admin, if I do, you better arrange something with Poker Host.

Chat soon guys.

I seem to have freerolled into every big tourney on 3 sites today. sick shit.

Nice gesture Steve, to bad about those quads, did you bust out right there?
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twinkyninja



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:31 pm

Yeah wasnt pretty.

the pre flop action, I couldnt put him on any danger cards, AA, KJ, QQ or 10 10 for that matter.

I couldnt put him on A10, pre flop action was too big, K 10 Q 10 and lower was just too donkey to consider.

I thought he had KK and the turn being an ace simply beat him. Not to mention he checked the Ace, this reinforced my read he had KK.

I was outplayed by a better player with a great hand. If a A on the turn and a Q on the river didnt appear, I could of gotten away. but i call his shove based on what plays were made.
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rayhubbard08



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:13 pm

wow thank you all so much for your input. I am new to the online poker playing i prefer live my self. But i have the same problem that DSG had i mean all the time tho. But i also have the problem with getting great/decent cards when it starts build my chip stack nicely but then become card dead the rest of the game or get AK QQ or even AA for that matter and i dont even push to hard because i'm trying to trap build up from carddeadville. and 2's 4's and 8's hit the board giving trips or str8s. i mean i've won maybe 100-150 playing $1 and $2 sit and go's but all this info helped so much i really appreciate the help.
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twinkyninja



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PostSubject: Re: How do you protect yourself against the river?   Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:27 am

I wish it was still the wild west in the 1800's. Shoot the donkeys in the saloons.
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